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Uitstappen? Is het echt never sell Shell?

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  1. forum rang 5 andre68 25 maart 2020 09:17
    quote:

    gpjf schreef op 25 maart 2020 09:08:

    [...]

    De economie krijgt een opdonder maar het gaat om de survivors!
    Idd! En hoe vaak krijg je nu kans on RD onder de 15 te kopen....alleen afgelopen 2 weken. Maar onder 18 is ook maar zelden en zelfs onder 20 is eigenlijk al uitzonderlijk. Te positief? Néé!! Tenzij de wereld vergaat. Maar dan kun je je beter verschansen in huis met pallets blikken bruine bonen en kun je met bijna ieder aandeel je reet afvegen.
  2. forum rang 6 NewKidInTown 25 maart 2020 09:22
    Vandaag Bloomberg.

    "Oil’s 60% Crash Is the Tip of an Iceberg. The Reality Is Worse"

    "(Bloomberg) -- As oil crashes, it’s easy to overlook an even more dismal reality for producers: the real prices they’re getting for their barrels are even worse.

    Having collapsed by about 60% this year, Brent and West Texas Intermediate crude have stabilized at around $25 a barrel, but the price rout is far deeper for actual cargoes, which are changing hands at large and widening discounts to the global benchmarks.

    “The physical market is in pain, and there is more pain to come,” said Torbjorn Tornqvist, the co-founder of Gunvor Group Ltd., a large trading house. “We will see the full weight of the oversupply in a couple of weeks.”

    Crude oil in the physical market trades at a premium or discount to Brent, West Texas Intermediate and other benchmarks. At times of surplus, premiums narrow and discounts widen. But the current situation is almost unprecedented, with discounts in some cases at multi-decade highs.

    Examples abound from Africa to the Middle East to Latin America.

    Nigeria, the biggest oil producer in Africa, is selling its flagship Qua Iboe crude at a discount of $3.10 a barrel below the Dated Brent benchmark, the largest ever. Colombia is selling its Vasconia crude at a discount $7.75 a barrel to Brent, a 4 1/2-year low. “The physical oil market looks horrific,” said Kit Haines, an analyst at consultant Energy Aspects Ltd.

    Oil prices in the physical market are weakening as the economic impact of the coronavirus on oil demand cascades through every part of the petroleum industry. “Demand clearly is off, in some parts of the world, very dramatically,” Chevron CEO Mike Wirth told Bloomberg TV on Tuesday.

    With fuel consumption in some countries, including France and Italy, down by a third or more, refiners are being forced to reduce the amount of crude they process. For example, Phillips 66, the world’s 11th-largest oil refiner by capacity, said on Tuesday it was operating its plants at “minimum crude processing rates” -- traditionally seen in the industry as running a refinery at between 60% and 80% of nameplate capacity. With refiners cutting runs, their demand for barrels has fallen commensurately.

    “Up to now the sharp market imbalances have mostly existed as a spreadsheet exercise,” Roger Diwan, an oil analyst at consultant IHS Markit Ltd. told clients in a note. “In the next two to three weeks, we will see those physical imbalances manifest in physical markets.”

    With refiners scaling down their crude purchases, traders are buying the cargoes to store them. The oil market has flipped into what the industry calls a contango: spot prices are lower than forward prices. The contango allows traders to buy physical crude, store it, and make a profit by selling forward.

    “The oversupply is going to be stored, and for that you need a deep contango,” Tornqvist said. “Clearly, everyone, us and other trading houses, is going to take advantage going forward. It’s the only game in town.”

    The pain in the physical market is clearly visible in the North Sea. Forties crude, which is the largest grade that helps set the global Brent benchmark, traded on Monday at its weakest since 2008. The financial instruments traders use to hedge their actual barrels are also mirroring the physical crude market’s weakness. In the North Sea, the Dated-to-Frontline swap, which helps traders to cover the gap between the futures and physical market, was at -$3.29, the widest discount in at least a decade.

    In other markets, from Asia to the Mediterranean to the Middle East, actual barrels of key crude streams are trading at similar discounts. Central Asian crude CPC Blend, for example, changed hands at an 8-year low earlier this month.

    The widening discounts, together with the collapse in the bechmarks, means that producers are seeing ultra-low prices. In Hardisty Alberta, a small town in Canada that’s the delivery point of the heavy Canadian crude benchmark, oil traded at a record low of just $7.47 a barrel last week. In central Montana, oil traded near $8 last week, having been above $30 at the start of the month.

    Even Saudi Arabia is going to suffer. With record discounts to European refiners, state-owned Saudi Aramco is set to sell its flagship Arab Light at around $15 a barrel in Rotterdam by the begining of April if the benchmark Brent holds at current levels.

    “When you take into account the physical differentials, the market is saying we are getting close to the area where production cuts occur,” said Olivier Jakob, managing director of consultant Petromatrix GmbH."

    finance.yahoo.com/m/6c0a0865-022e-3dd...
  3. forum rang 7 Wilbar 25 maart 2020 09:22
    quote:

    andre68 schreef op 25 maart 2020 09:17:

    [...]Idd! En hoe vaak krijg je nu kans on RD onder de 15 te kopen....alleen afgelopen 2 weken. Maar onder 18 is ook maar zelden en zelfs onder 20 is eigenlijk al uitzonderlijk. Te positief? Néé!! Tenzij de wereld vergaat. Maar dan kun je je beter verschansen in huis met pallets blikken bruine bonen en kun je met bijna ieder aandeel je reet afvegen.
    Dan lijkt het me verstandiger om daar dan eerst een stapeltje Kardan voor aan te schaffen in plaats van aandelen RD daar voor te gebruiken. Veegt toch iets goedkoper :)
  4. [verwijderd] 25 maart 2020 09:52
    quote:

    COCO61 schreef op 25 maart 2020 09:31:

    nope zijn nu de prijs aan het drukken en dan knalluh
    Algoritme die kans ziet om te shorten en daarna long; die test de bodems -> bodem gevonden? Kopen. :o)

    GAK nog steeds 11,112 euro.. hmm die 9,50 euro lijkt niet meer te komen :o)

    Als we binnen een week op 20,00 euro tot 22,00 euro staan overweeg ik wel een verkoop.
  5. zalwel 25 maart 2020 10:00
    quote:

    Kaspersky schreef op 25 maart 2020 09:52:

    [...]
    Algoritme die kans ziet om te shorten en daarna long; die test de bodems -> bodem gevonden? Kopen. :o)

    GAK nog steeds 11,112 euro.. hmm die 9,50 euro lijkt niet meer te komen :o)

    Als we binnen een week op 20,00 euro tot 22,00 euro staan overweeg ik wel een verkoop.
    Je hebt er natuurlijk veel te weinig gekocht als je nog limieten in had liggen die niet zijn gegaan. Dan is een heel klein stukje op 11,112 veel te weinig. Jammer toch iets te voorzichtig en bang geweest. Niet goed ingeschat wat de risico’s en de kansen waren. Ervaring?
  6. COCO61 25 maart 2020 10:00
    porto is vol met ing Fugro oci en shell van vorige week maandag
    en opties Lufthansa eergisteren
    geen cash meer
  7. [verwijderd] 25 maart 2020 10:05
    quote:

    Yucel schreef op 25 maart 2020 10:03:

    Alle shorters, doemdenkers hebben pijn hahha. Ben blij dat ik de laatste week steeds bijgekocht heb met GAK 13,38.
    Doe je goed
  8. [verwijderd] 25 maart 2020 10:06
    quote:

    NewKidInTown schreef op 25 maart 2020 09:22:

    Vandaag Bloomberg.

    "Oil’s 60% Crash Is the Tip of an Iceberg. The Reality Is Worse"

    "(Bloomberg) -- As oil crashes, it’s easy to overlook an even more dismal reality for producers: the real prices they’re getting for their barrels are even worse.

    Having collapsed by about 60% this year, Brent and West Texas Intermediate crude have stabilized at around $25 a barrel, but the price rout is far deeper for actual cargoes, which are changing hands at large and widening discounts to the global benchmarks.

    “The physical market is in pain, and there is more pain to come,” said Torbjorn Tornqvist, the co-founder of Gunvor Group Ltd., a large trading house. “We will see the full weight of the oversupply in a couple of weeks.”

    Crude oil in the physical market trades at a premium or discount to Brent, West Texas Intermediate and other benchmarks. At times of surplus, premiums narrow and discounts widen. But the current situation is almost unprecedented, with discounts in some cases at multi-decade highs.

    Examples abound from Africa to the Middle East to Latin America.

    Nigeria, the biggest oil producer in Africa, is selling its flagship Qua Iboe crude at a discount of $3.10 a barrel below the Dated Brent benchmark, the largest ever. Colombia is selling its Vasconia crude at a discount $7.75 a barrel to Brent, a 4 1/2-year low. “The physical oil market looks horrific,” said Kit Haines, an analyst at consultant Energy Aspects Ltd.

    Oil prices in the physical market are weakening as the economic impact of the coronavirus on oil demand cascades through every part of the petroleum industry. “Demand clearly is off, in some parts of the world, very dramatically,” Chevron CEO Mike Wirth told Bloomberg TV on Tuesday.

    With fuel consumption in some countries, including France and Italy, down by a third or more, refiners are being forced to reduce the amount of crude they process. For example, Phillips 66, the world’s 11th-largest oil refiner by capacity, said on Tuesday it was operating its plants at “minimum crude processing rates” -- traditionally seen in the industry as running a refinery at between 60% and 80% of nameplate capacity. With refiners cutting runs, their demand for barrels has fallen commensurately.

    “Up to now the sharp market imbalances have mostly existed as a spreadsheet exercise,” Roger Diwan, an oil analyst at consultant IHS Markit Ltd. told clients in a note. “In the next two to three weeks, we will see those physical imbalances manifest in physical markets.”

    With refiners scaling down their crude purchases, traders are buying the cargoes to store them. The oil market has flipped into what the industry calls a contango: spot prices are lower than forward prices. The contango allows traders to buy physical crude, store it, and make a profit by selling forward.

    “The oversupply is going to be stored, and for that you need a deep contango,” Tornqvist said. “Clearly, everyone, us and other trading houses, is going to take advantage going forward. It’s the only game in town.”

    The pain in the physical market is clearly visible in the North Sea. Forties crude, which is the largest grade that helps set the global Brent benchmark, traded on Monday at its weakest since 2008. The financial instruments traders use to hedge their actual barrels are also mirroring the physical crude market’s weakness. In the North Sea, the Dated-to-Frontline swap, which helps traders to cover the gap between the futures and physical market, was at -$3.29, the widest discount in at least a decade.

    In other markets, from Asia to the Mediterranean to the Middle East, actual barrels of key crude streams are trading at similar discounts. Central Asian crude CPC Blend, for example, changed hands at an 8-year low earlier this month.

    The widening discounts, together with the collapse in the bechmarks, means that producers are seeing ultra-low prices. In Hardisty Alberta, a small town in Canada that’s the delivery point of the heavy Canadian crude benchmark, oil traded at a record low of just $7.47 a barrel last week. In central Montana, oil traded near $8 last week, having been above $30 at the start of the month.

    Even Saudi Arabia is going to suffer. With record discounts to European refiners, state-owned Saudi Aramco is set to sell its flagship Arab Light at around $15 a barrel in Rotterdam by the begining of April if the benchmark Brent holds at current levels.

    “When you take into account the physical differentials, the market is saying we are getting close to the area where production cuts occur,” said Olivier Jakob, managing director of consultant Petromatrix GmbH."

    finance.yahoo.com/m/6c0a0865-022e-3dd...
    Ik hoorde op BloombergTV iemand van Vitol soortgelijk verhaal vertellen.
    De vraag rijst of RDshell binnen 1 jaar nog weer boven €20 komt...
    Er moeten sectoren bestaan die juist enorm voordeel hebben bij ultralage olieprijzen en het snoeien in die keten. Vindt ze!
  9. [verwijderd] 25 maart 2020 10:06
    quote:

    zalwel schreef op 25 maart 2020 10:00:

    [...]

    Je hebt er natuurlijk veel te weinig gekocht als je nog limieten in had liggen die niet zijn gegaan. Dan is een heel klein stukje op 11,112 veel te weinig. Jammer toch iets te voorzichtig en bang geweest. Niet goed ingeschat wat de risico’s en de kansen waren. Ervaring?
    Dit zijn mijn huidige posities:

    Shell
    URW
    Sligro
    Gilead
    kleine hoeveelheid cash

    @zalwel: het gaat mij meer om het geld te spreiden en zo goedkoop mogelijk aandelen inkopen (wanneer iedereen er echt vanaf wil en het ziet als poep);
    URW staat op circa +40%
    Shell op circa +45%
    verkochte posities +20% (zijn verder gestegen)
    Gilead +3%
    Sligro +1% of +3%

    Jammer dat er nog een kleine hoeveelheid in cash zit.. het is niet anders.. (de winst die genomen is)

    15 jaar.. bijna 16 jaar belegger :o)
  10. forum rang 6 PietKeizer 25 maart 2020 10:09
    Mogge. Ik zei gisteren al: je gaat altijd te vroeg short. In dit geval: ik. Kost me natuurlijk de kop niet, 3 putjes april20; maar altijd goed om n mens wakker te houden:) als ik zelf stukken had met winst zou ik ze persoonlijk nu wegdoen. Maar dat is kletsen in de ruimte,want ik had ze en allang niet meer. Ben vooral bezig de controle vd pelisie hier te ontwijken. We hebben nl praktisch huisarrest per heden, in dit fijne land.
  11. [verwijderd] 25 maart 2020 10:11
    quote:

    Rendementjes schreef op 24 maart 2020 18:15:

    Ben blij dat ik niet verkocht heb met verlies vorige week.

    Mijn GAK is 15,10 ong.

    Wat is jullie gemiddelde aankoop koers?
    GAK 14,547
  12. [verwijderd] 25 maart 2020 10:12
    quote:

    Kaspersky schreef op 25 maart 2020 10:06:

    [...]
    Dit zijn mijn huidige posities:

    Verkochte posities +20% (zijn verder gestegen)
    O, reken je de winst die een ander nu maakt tot de jouwe?
  13. [verwijderd] 25 maart 2020 10:13
    quote:

    PietKeizer schreef op 25 maart 2020 10:09:

    Mogge. Ik zei gisteren al: je gaat altijd te vroeg short. In dit geval: ik. Kost me natuurlijk de kop niet, 3 putjes april20; maar altijd goed om n mens wakker te houden:) als ik zelf stukken had met winst zou ik ze persoonlijk nu wegdoen. Maar dat is kletsen in de ruimte,want ik had ze en allang niet meer. Ben vooral bezig de controle vd pelisie hier te ontwijken. We hebben nl praktisch huisarrest per heden, in dit fijne land.
    Wat zijn de maatregelen in Nederland nu? Ik volg het nieuws nauwelijks -> wiskundig weet ik in principe al hoe het ervoor staat :o)
  14. Fireblade954RR 25 maart 2020 10:13
    Zojuist laatste plukje Shell verkocht voor 15,85 (en ook nog ABN voor 9,30). Beide fondsen zijn vanaf het dieptepunt binnen een week, zonder fundamenteel positief nieuws, circa 50% gestegen. Lijkt me iets optimistisch. Nu weer helemaal cash
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